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And the winner is...
OU professors pick moderator as winner of debate
Originally published 11:04 p.m., September 27, 2008
Updated 11:03 p.m., September 27, 2008
Would you believe Jim Lehrer?
The PBS journalist, who was moderator for the first presidential debate between Sen. Barack Obama and Sen. John McCain, won hands-down as far as the academia side of the post-game analysis went.
That was the consensus of the two Ohio University professors who are providing running commentary on the current presidential election race for The Tribune.
“I was really impressed,” Dr. Kenneth Heineman said. “As a moderator he kept forcing them to come back to the issue that with this bailout where is all this money coming from for future programs and tax cuts. He finally pinned them down.
“Last night was excellent. I attribute that to Lehrer, that one moderator (format) works best. You had very focused questions and you had follow-up. Lehrer did the best public service in his career when he forced them to say where are these spending cuts.”
His colleague, Dr. Michael McTeague, agreed with that observation and after that the two men definitely veered.
“The attempt to try to get them to engage in discussion was well done by the moderator,” McTeague said.
However, while McTeague called the actual debate a draw, Heineman saw it as a definite win for McCain.
“I have to give it to McCain. McCain was throughout very calm, very humorous,” Heineman said. “He had some very funny lines. He was smooth throughout. Obama on the other hand was agitated for most of the debate. You could see the irritation and the anger, when he started getting frustrated, the stuttering.”
In Heineman’s take on the debate, Obama focused over and over on two talking points: health care and President Bush.
“If he would have been talking about the Pittsburgh Steelers, he would have worked in President Bush,” Heineman said.
Obama was the one who buckled under the pressure of questioning, the professor contends.
“Now the expectation was that McCain would be tired and grouchy,” he said. “McCain was emphasizing bipartisanship. Obama came off argumentative and not really focused.”
Their performances followed what Heineman has seen as the two candidates’ strong suits: Obama is more polished and dynamic when making a speech. McCain performs better off the cuff.
“(Obama) does much better with a set piece … he is not good at conversation,” Heineman said. “Where McCain is terrible at these set pieces, McCain gives the impression of someone willing to listen to the other side.”
While McTeague saw neither candidate as making an egregious misstep, he did agree that there is value to that election tradition of having debates.
“You are trying to get at least an idea of how a large overview of policy is being addressed,” he said.
Comments
Posted by Noesis (anonymous) on September 27, 2008 at 11:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"While McTeague saw neither candidate as making an egregious misstep..."
Other than Obama's misquoting Henry Kissinger you mean.
Like we said before, take away Obama's teleprompter and what do you get... Someone who flounders.
Posted by Slick77 (anonymous) on September 28, 2008 at 12:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Noesis: I agree, It was weird not seeing Obama looking straight into the teleprompter.
You could just feel and see the aggravation on Obama's face, while McCain just kept on with the facts. McCain was smooth. The article is accurate in saying McCain is better "off the cuff", and that is surely what is needed when being President. You have to be ready for anything!
He sure didn't look to old and grouchy to me, just in control and a step ahead.
Posted by keta (anonymous) on September 28, 2008 at 12:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Didn't someone already explain to you that candidates don't use teleprompters at a presidential debate?
I think any mention of Henry Kissinger is a good thing for Obama. I wish McCain would bring Donald Rumsfeld on board, too. Wonder if G. Gordon Liddy is available?
The kookiest thing about this article is the part where Heineman praises McCain for his bipartisan behavior during the debate. Does "bipartisan" now mean contemptuous, cranky, and dismissive? Heineman's opinions belong on the opinion page.
Posted by Slick77 (anonymous) on September 28, 2008 at 12:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)
keta... I know that, I said it was weird not seeing him look straight ahead! He was off and uncomfortable, because of no teleprompter. You always twist things, you never get anything, just spew out whatever before you think. That is one reason most of your comments have been deleted. Can't you just be civil and informative at the same time? That is what we are trying to do here. I think Mike C. is kind enough to give us this forum, keep it intellectual and factual if possible.
Posted by Noesis (anonymous) on September 28, 2008 at 1:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Jeez Slick, shoot here down and field dress her in all one post ;) Taking after Palin?
Posted by keta (anonymous) on September 28, 2008 at 1:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)
My comments haven't been deleted. And there's no danger of "keeping it intellectual" here. Or factual. It's hard to figure out why you'd think you can spout nonsense about "Obambi" and "koolaid drinkers" nonstop, but everyone else should be courteous and polite.
Posted by Noesis (anonymous) on September 28, 2008 at 2:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Obamabi isn't any more nonsensical than McSame. Factual? What would you know about facts? You're the one who says WE'VE killed 100,000 Iraqi's.
Posted by Merchanna (anonymous) on September 28, 2008 at 6:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Senator Mc Cain was rude to a fellow American and never once in engaged with Senator Obama. He never gave eye contact in the greetings. He reminded me of the Old Miss of yesterday. Don't see him as a fellow American -representing like his stories - the past. He was a rude old fart.
It's one thing to visit a country but another thing to lead one. He is too uncouth to do so. Maybe Gov. Palin can assist him on manners if he will allow her to speak.
What will he really be like toward world leaders in the Presidential chair- Putin?
By the way does he know there are middle class people or just think there are only millionaires and corporations? Don't you wonder how much Cindy might had been about to lose if the Republicans didn't vote her way gor her monies?
Posted by Noesis (anonymous) on September 28, 2008 at 7:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Rude... Obama was the one constantly interrupting McCain.
Posted by Noesis (anonymous) on September 28, 2008 at 7:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Talk about rude!!!:
...Shockingly, however, Madison resident Brian Jopek, the father of Ryan Jopek, the young soldier who tragically lost his life to a roadside bomb in 2006, recently said on a Wisconsin Public Radio show that his family had asked Barack Obama to stop wearing the bracelet with his son's name on it. Yet Obama continues to do so despite the wishes of the family.
Posted by Slick77 (anonymous) on September 28, 2008 at 8:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Keta...I believe you are talking about someone else.. because I have never said "koolaid drinkers" or Obami. Go back and look. Never. That would have been others.
Only references I have made to you or Neo, is "lefties" or "liberals", that's it. I may use humor or be sarcastic, but I am not vile or ruthless and don't call names. Get your facts straight once again Keta
Posted by Neo (anonymous) on September 28, 2008 at 8:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Poll Results Suggest More Uncommitted Voters Saw Obama As Debate Winner
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/09/26/...
MediaCurves Polls: FIRST DEBATE - Quick Results
http://mediacurves.com/
multiple other sources citing Obama victory...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/...
Posted by Neo (anonymous) on September 28, 2008 at 8:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)
and up next...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM3iWlTiE...
no comment necessary
Posted by Merchanna (anonymous) on September 28, 2008 at 10:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)
How do you know that Obama is wearing this soldier's name. There are many others- he could have CHANGED it.
It was a debate. It was set up for that purpose: exchange thoughts. Obama used his time wisely. The entitled - thinking candidate just did what he wanted. When it was time to move on his apparent dementia appeared and he began rattling about his past stories- the ones we have all heard previously and could repeat with him.
Now if Governor Palin fumbles Thursday will she be replaced by Mayor Rudy or Gov. Romney or First Dude?
Posted by Merchanna (anonymous) on September 28, 2008 at 10:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Back up a few thoughts -Mc Cain did not look relaxed he looked like he was embalmed standing and placed behind the podium.
What is the meaning of suspended? Is it different for our area than one from Arizona?
Posted by keta (anonymous) on September 28, 2008 at 1:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Noesis should tell the rest of that bracelet story. Although she didn't say so at the time, Mrs. Jopek would have preferred that the matter of Obama wearing the bracelet with her son's name on it remain private. Mr. Jopek explained during the interview that she wouldn't make an issue of it because she doesn't want to hurt Obama's chances of winning the election. Yep, that shocking story is about....a really strong Obama supporter. I guess you could call that post factual, although Noesis told only enough of the story to make Obama look bad. Lot of that going around.
Posted by keta (anonymous) on September 28, 2008 at 2 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Noesis's complaint that Obama constantly interrupted McCain during the debate needs finishing, too. Obama's interruptions were all for the same reason - to point out that McCain was lying. It was hardly necessary to point it out, since entire forests have been felled to print the pages necessary to report McCain's false statements about Obama, and everybody from George Will to late-night comedians wonder aloud why he's willing to stoop so low. (answer: because he really, really wants to be president). Still, Obama could hardly just stand there and let him do it, belch out his entire stump speech full of lies and innuendo. Maybe he should have just laughed out loud, as I did.
Posted by sugar08 (anonymous) on September 28, 2008 at 2:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I want to apologize before I begin, I don't want to step on anyones toes.
If these four are what we have to vote on to lead this United States we are in big trouble.
We all had better get on our knees and pray that our Lord sends someone that can help our country because I can't see either one of these two doing anything to bring this country back on track. We'd better be trying to get along instead of all this putting each other down. God Bless America
Posted by Merchanna (anonymous) on September 28, 2008 at 3:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Senator Biden must be careful in dealing with Gov. Palin. He will have to do multitask- teach Gov. Palin World History on an elementary level, speak to the Independents and the Republicans while being careful and staying on task to speak power to the truth- No More of the Same with John Mc Cain.
Gov. Palin should return to Alaska and watch out for Putin where she has world experience in this area. We certainly would appreciate her doing that in behalf of the country, of women, of mothers and of the parties.
Posted by Noesis (anonymous) on September 28, 2008 at 4:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Posted by Merchanna:
How do you know that Obama is wearing this soldier's name. There are many others- he could have CHANGED it.
It was a debate.
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Did you not watch the debate? McCain knew the name of the soldier's bracelet he was wearing. Obama said he was wearing a bracelet too... the name of the soldier is, uh, uh, looks down at the bracelet and then says the soldier's name.
Are you saying that he would lie and just pick a name out of a hat for the bracelet he's "supposedly" wearing? Sounds like you are used to his lying.
And it's funny that you talk about Palin fumbling. You guys couldn't wait until her nomination speech to see how weak she was and watch the poll numbers drop, until her first interview when she would be exposed, until the first McCain/Obama debate when Obama would "destroy" McCain.
The question should be will Obama panic and replace Biden with Hillary if he doesn't destroy Palin?
Posted by Noesis (anonymous) on September 28, 2008 at 4:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Posted by keta (anonymous) on September 28, 2008 at 1:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Noesis should tell the rest of that bracelet story. Although she didn't say so at the time, Mrs. Jopek would have preferred that the matter of Obama wearing the bracelet with her son's name on it remain private.
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So lets get this straight Keta, you admit that she didn't put the reason down she didn't want Obama wear her son's bracelet and YET he disregards her wishes and wears it anyway....
I stand by my point.
Posted by Noesis (anonymous) on September 28, 2008 at 5:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Posted by keta:
Noesis's complaint that Obama constantly interrupted McCain during the debate needs finishing, too. Obama's interruptions were all for the same reason - to point out that McCain was lying.
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Lies, what lies Keta? Lets check ABC News for the "lies":
Claim: Obama said he "pays for every dime" of his spending proposals.
Fact: The nonpartisan Tax Policy Center says that Obama's policies would increase the debt by $3.5 trillion over 10 years. The Tax Policy Center adds that McCain's policies would lead to an even bigger increase in the debt of $5.1 trillion.
Claim: Obama said that McCain "wanted to give oil companies another $4 billion."
Fact: McCain's tax proposal would give tax breaks to all corporations, not just oil companies. His proposal seeks to lower the corporate tax rate 10 percent.
Claim: Obama said "if you make less than $250,000 -- less than a quarter-million dollars a year -- then you will not see one dime's worth of tax increase."
Fact: Obama has called for higher taxes on income, capital gains and dividends for individuals making $200,000 per year. His tax plan imposes higher taxes on couples starting at $250,000 a year.
Claim: McCain suggested Adm. Mike Mullen called Obama's Iraq withdrawal plan "dangerous." Obama said, "That's not the case."
Fact: On "Fox News Sunday," Mullen was asked by Chris Wallace if setting a timeline for withdrawal along the lines of Obama's plan "could be dangerous." Mullen told Chris Wallace, "I think the consequences could be very dangerous in that regard."
Posted by Noesis (anonymous) on September 28, 2008 at 5:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Claim: McCain began tonight's debate by expressing his concerns for Ted Kennedy "who is now in the hospital."
Fact: While Ted Kennedy did go to the hospital briefly today for a minor seizure, the Kennedy family released a statement an hour before the debate began saying he was back at home, doing well and watching the debate.
Claim: McCain said Gen. Dwight Eisenhower wrote a resignation letter the night before the Normandy invasion in World War II.
Fact: Eisenhower wrote a letter taking full responsibility for the consequences of the invasion, but did not write a letter of resignation, according to the National Archives. See the letter here.
Claim: McCain said Obama voted for a tax increase on people who make $42,000 per year.
Fact: Obama voted "yes" on a Senate budget resolution that would raise the tax rate from 25 percent to 28 percent for single wage earners making $42,000 or more. However, budget resolutions are non-binding and do not affect tax rates.
Claim: McCain said he'd been criticized because he "called for the resignation of the chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission."
Fact: McCain has been criticized in part for saying to reporters last Thursday, "If I were president today, I would fire him" -- something the president technically cannot do because the SEC is an independent agency.
-----
Claim: McCain said that Obama did not understand that Pakistan was a "failed state" when Gen. Pervez Musharraf came to power.
Fact: Musharraf came to power in a military coup in 1999, deposing Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif. The institutions of government never stopped functioning.
And then there was Obama's Kissinger lie.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/...
Posted by turbo (anonymous) on September 28, 2008 at 6:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Readers,
Go to bloggs and read Mikes story and the comments,
Very interesting.
Posted by Vil (anonymous) on September 28, 2008 at 8:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Obama also wants to let the Bush Tax Cuts expire. That would raise our taxes.
Posted by Noesis (anonymous) on September 28, 2008 at 8:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)
That and Neo says Obama won't raise taxes on anyone making >$250,000. That's a lie if you make >$200,000 and get dividends
Posted by Noesis (anonymous) on September 28, 2008 at 8:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Vil, Currently Obama says he'll still keep Bush's tax cuts for people making <$250,000. Not that I believe him. Maybe because of the "bailout" he'll lower it to $70 - 80,000.
Posted by steel_herd (anonymous) on September 28, 2008 at 10:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)
mccain could only talk about the past and never mentioned the words middle class or working american, unfortunately, the people of ironton. the poor people of ironton will never see the light. mccain never spoke about what he could do as president other then continue bush's path. obama spent the night speaking of the future and what he will do as president, not what he was doing in the 60's or 70's. VOTE OBAMA! VOTE OBAMA!
Posted by Vil (anonymous) on September 28, 2008 at 10:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Did you even watch the debate, or did you get a recap from a leftist blog?
75% of the 'poor' people in Ironton don't try to better themselves and bring themselves up, they'd rather wait and have the government take care of them, just like Obama wants to do.
Instead of rewarding people who get off their hind ends and work, he wants to just give everything away to the slothful people who are dragging this country down.
Posted by Noesis (anonymous) on September 28, 2008 at 11:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Posted by steel_herd: mccain could only talk about the past and never mentioned the words middle class or working american...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steel_herd... who do you actually think is "Main Street"???
McCain: ...We're talking about failures on Main Street, and people who will lose their jobs, and their credits, and their homes, if we don't fix the greatest fiscal crisis, probably in -- certainly in our time, and I've been around a little while.
Posted by Noesis (anonymous) on September 28, 2008 at 11:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Oh and Steel_herd, Obama couldn't talk about the past because he has none in politics... he's just a stuffed shirt who makes empty promises like your local used car salesman.
Posted by Neo (anonymous) on September 29, 2008 at 9:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I really do get tired of repeating myself but, here we go again. Obama has made it 100% crystal clear that anyone making $250K or less will have no tax increases and that includes capital gains taxes. For the record, and padanorr might disagree with this, but I'd say worrying about being taxed on capital gains given the state of Wall St. right now too big of a concern.
As for Palin, Biden doesn't even have to look at her or say anything to her for her to come off as ridiculous. Just the questions from the moderator will do her in. Want proof? Watch...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM3iWlTiE...
Noesis, make it easier for yourself. The more you swim upstream now, the harder the next 8 years will be for you.
IF THE ELECTION WERE HELD TODAY:
Electoral Vote
Obama - 326
McCain - 212
Popular Vote
Obama - 50.8%
McCain - 47.5%
Obama has pulled ahead in OH, FL, NV and VA. He's now closing in on IN, MO and NC.
It's looking more and more like a blowout. McCain has thrown hail mary after hail mary and none of them have connected. He blew the one debate Friday on what was supposed to be his best topic...foreign relations. He's now got to deal with the aftermath of Palin's debate which is an odds on bet for disaster.
McCain just doesn't have anything left in his arsenal to create the kind of massive turnaround he needs now.
So, Noesis, why don't you just chill out a little and be civil with your posts. These attempts you make to "prove" how well McCain is doing or that he has some hope of winning is just diminishing your credibility.
Posted by Neo (anonymous) on September 29, 2008 at 9:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Palin Claimed Dinosaurs And People Coexisted
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-...
Posted by Neo (anonymous) on September 29, 2008 at 9:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)
'Thank John McCain' TV Ad
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neiYzaiXH...
Posted by Neo (anonymous) on September 29, 2008 at 9:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Palin Contradicts McCain On Pakistan, Seems To Back Obama’s Position
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/09/27/...
Posted by Neo (anonymous) on September 29, 2008 at 9:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Soldier's Mother "Ecstatic" about Obama's Bracelet
http://www.nbc15.com/state/headlines/298...
Posted by Neo (anonymous) on September 29, 2008 at 9:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Voter Purging: A Legal Way for Republicans to Swing Elections?
http://www.alternet.org/story/62133/
Posted by Neo (anonymous) on September 29, 2008 at 9:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)
If you missed it in the post above, watch this video. It speaks for itself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM3iWlTiE...
Posted by Vil (anonymous) on September 29, 2008 at 10:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)
You posted 7 times in a row. That's way overkill to keep your opponents views from being seen.
Posted by padanorr (David A. Norris) on September 29, 2008 at 10:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)
McCain and Obama –
Fundamental differences when it comes to economics and the role of government.
McCain believes the government that governs best is the government that governs less.
Obama believes in big government solutions first because the government knows better than you, or at least under him it knows best.
McCain believes in the inherent good of free markets with an efficient safety net.
Obama believes in income redistribution, government handouts, and a welfare state.
McCain wants to help the poor and lower classes and empower them to rise out of their poverty.
Obama wants to enslave them in a growing system of entitlements and dependency.
McCain believes in low taxes and sensible regulations which have always resulted in massive job creation, economic stability, and growth.
Obama wants to raise taxes and mandates which have always burdened employers, killed jobs, and chased money and investments out the country faster than he threw his own grandmother under the bus for political expediency.
McCain wants to teach people to fish.
Obama wants to give them a fish everyday!
McCain wants to help people afford health care by reducing health care costs, and empowering consumers.
Obama wants to subsidize health-care with the government mandates and cash, which have always driven up overall costs and reduced access and quality.
McCain believes the best way to help people afford energy is to lower energy costs – by expanding existing energy supplies, and encouraging with tax incentives: conservation and the use of alternatives of their choice.
Obama wants to cut fossil fuel supplies to raise energy costs to force people to conserve and to use his choice of alternatives.
McCain wants to protect the environment, but unlike Obama McCain doesn’t want to screw the people in the process
McCain wants open and free trade because He knows fair competition only makes our workers and industries stronger, more efficient, more productive, and more innovative.
Obama wants trade barriers and protectionism because he has no faith in the American worker. He doesn’t believe they can compete. Why else would he support barriers to fair competition and pander to the complacent and lazy?
McCain sincerely wants to help the American people prosper.
McCain wants to encourage success; Obama wants to attack it, kill it, and bleed it dry.
McCain believes that wealth is something that anyone can create and possess if only properly motivated.
Obama believes wealth simply exits to be divided more fairly, regardless of merit.
McCain wants to live in a country where people have amble opportunity to work and earn all that is necessary to care for themselves and their families and more.
Obama wants to live in a country where people have to rely on the government for what they need.
Posted by Neo (anonymous) on September 29, 2008 at 10:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Sure, VII, whatever.
Posted by padanorr (David A. Norris) on September 29, 2008 at 11 a.m. (Suggest removal)
More McCain and Obama –
More Fundamental differences when it comes to economics and the role of government.
McCain believes that the best way to increase opportunities is for government to lessen its burdens on the people and loosening its noose on those who provide the jobs so we can improve those opportunities; Obama believes in more government, and in tightening the noose.
Obama believes that the best way is for his government to more securely attach itself to the economy so he can more efficiently feed off it, and suck the opportunity out of it so he can in turn transfer that opportunity to you.
Senator Obama is a parasite of the worst kind. He will only weaken the economy and kill jobs.
Senator Obama criticizes McCain’s approach as a phony plan that only helps the rich while neglecting the needs of the middle and lower classes. He criticizes it and mocks it, and calls it a trickle-down scheme. But the only thing phony here is (Senator Obama) his reasoning.
Senator Obama believes the best way to help people is to simply give them the stuff, but in order to afford all his promises and freebees, he’ll have to increase the burdens on those who provide 85% of the jobs in this country in a way that will suffocate business and kill jobs.
Obama’s plan is patently flawed.
Obama’s plan discourages job creation, real wage growth, and only encourages stagnation, inflation, and unemployment, as has been the case with all such socialist experiments.
Obama’s plan for government subsidized health-care and college will only encourage colleges and hospitals and doctors to raise their rates. This plan will only decrease the number of people who can afford these opportunities without government assistance.
McCain believes in an America where initiative and work are encouraged, and where complacency, and laziness are not.
McCain believes in an America where success is rewarded, and failure is not.
McCain believes in an America that helps those who have fallen on hard times, but doesn’t give out public assistance and entitlements like candy (like a drug dealer pushes crack) to enslave people to pubic dependency.
Senator Obama says he wants to give 95% of Americans a tax cut. Oh, he’s a smooth talker. He’s quite the little swindler, and this whopper of a promise proves it. He promises to cut taxes for 95% of Americans, but this is impossible because a third of Americans don’t even pay such taxes.
Obama proposes hundreds of billions of dollars in new spending, and he unabashedly plans to raise taxes on what he calls the wealthy. Oh, but don’t worry, this is only the filthy rich, vile businesses and evil corporations of America. Translation: he won’t tax you, but your employer won’t be so lucky. Tell me how this is not going to affect you?
Posted by padanorr (David A. Norris) on September 29, 2008 at 11:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)
More McCain and Obama –
More Fundamental differences when it comes to economics and the role of government.
Obama’s plan, like he himself, is short-sighted, naive, and ridiculous. You can’t cut taxes for 95% Americans when only two thirds of Americans actually pay taxes, and you surely can’t help 95% of people by raising taxes on 85% of their employers. He’s either country’s biggest con man, or he’s the one who doesn’t GET IT. Those taxes will be passed down to the people in the form of cut backs, layoffs, and higher prices. He wants to help the people, but his plan will only (screw) hurt them.
Posted by osu (anonymous) on September 29, 2008 at 11:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I didn't watch Friday night, but you can bet your house I will watch "Saturday Night Live" on Thursday night when the buffoon known as Palin attempts to debate Joe Biden.
Posted by padanorr (David A. Norris) on September 29, 2008 at 11:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)
McCain’s Plan …
McCain will reduce and simplify taxes – including the elimination of the capital gains tax to encourage economic growth, to increase new jobs, businesses, and revenue.
McCain will reform the appropriations process to ensure fiscal stability, to cut wasteful spending, to discourage corruption and federal manipulation, and to restore local control.
McCain will reduce energy costs by investing in an all of the above strategy, and thus will achieve energy independence and security – McCain will tap into domestic reserves of fossil fuels and expand programs to encourage conservation and technology, and all of this will help offset the rising cost of foreign imports and smooth the transition to renewable and alternative energy sources as they are developed.
McCain will make health-care more affordable by reducing costs – by expanding competition, by reforming torts, by permitting drug re-importation, by promoting technology and information transparency, and by tapping into a consumer driven model, and McCain will expand access with tax credits for individuals and businesses, and with individual health savings accounts.
McCain will stabilize financial/credit markets, insure money market funds & pensions, eliminate predatory lending and irresponsible borrowing practices, and improve oversight and regulations to ensure the availability of sound credit and continual economic growth.
McCain will reform unemployment insurance: to provide OPTIONS like mortgage reconstruction assistance, temporary interest deferment, temporary health insurance benefits, and job training reimbursements to help people to bridge the gap between jobs.
McCain will fully fund Social Security and eliminate borrowing from the Social Security to finance the general budget so we can ensure benefits existing retirees and baby-boomers.
McCain will expand trade and open markets to American-made goods & services to increase American jobs. McCain will push for a greater free-trade zone in the western hemisphere and with other close allies with out sacrificing our border security.
McCain will pass comprehensive immigration reform and border security legislation to stabilize labor markets and protect our people and economy from future terrorist attacks.
Socialism does not work. It never has. It is self-defeating, it is as flawed as Obama’s reasoning, and to this history can attest. Please I beg you, do not be fooled by Barack Obama.
Yes we need change, but we need change that we can afford; change that does not sacrifice our long held principles for short-term gains; change that will not strangle our nation, and change that we can all believe in.
Posted by padanorr (David A. Norris) on September 29, 2008 at 11:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I have a challenge for osu, neo, MasterChef and others that post in here that support Barack Obama.
My challenge is this, display your real name and lend some credibility to your posts.
As you will notice I am displaying my real name. If you want to support Obama and blast McCain that is fine ... but don't do it anonomously anymore.
I support McCain and what he stands for in this election. If you support Obama and what he stands for then don't be a coward and do it from the shadows.
If you want more information on displaying your real name read Mike Caldwell's blog at this link ...
http://www.irontontribune.com/weblogs/te...
Posted by osu (anonymous) on September 29, 2008 at 12:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I have a sign in my yard, a sticker on my car, and I regularly wear T-shirts in support of Senator Obama. I don't have to put my "real" name on a message board to "prove" somehow that I am supporting a candidate. Period.
I have also written a letter to the editor, with my real name; and offered a public endorsement of Senator Obama.
I'm not hiding in the shadows!
Posted by padanorr (David A. Norris) on September 29, 2008 at 1 p.m. (Suggest removal)
osu,
Displaying your real name as proof that you support your candidate is not the issue. It is quite obvious that you support Barack Obama. The point is are you willing to stand by what you say in these forums? If everybody puts their name to what is written here, then we will start thinking twice about resorting to name calling and mud slinging. The quality of the discussions will increase and everyone will benefit.
How about it?
Posted by SteveLeach (anonymous) on September 29, 2008 at 1:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I did not watch the debate at all frankly because I cannot stand to look at obama or hear him speak. I think he is a liar, elitist and frankly with his past associations he may also be a racist. I know this may offend some on here but frankly I dont care as they obviously dont care what they say about McCain and Palin. I dont trust obama and I am against bigger government and wealth redistribution and I am basically sick of people expecting the govt to take care of them, it started as a hand-up and is now a hand out and this does nothing but make more people dependent on the govt. This is not the way it was intended. Both sides have made lots of mistakes but for me McCain/Palin is the only choice. Of course I know there will never be alot of change due to the lifers in congress who do nothing but serve there own interests and care nothing about us and frankly until we the people exercise our power and vote these people out no matter what party they are and try to find people who will serve our needs and not theirs then really things will never change and we the working people will continue to be forgotten or walked on so elected leaders can take car of themselves and not the people the were elected to serve.
Posted by Neo (anonymous) on September 29, 2008 at 4:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Stunning Defeat for Bailout Plan Torpedoes Stocks; Dow Sinks Over 750
http://finance.yahoo.com/
Want 4 more years of this?
Posted by padanorr (David A. Norris) on September 29, 2008 at 4:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Neo ...
why are you remaining anonymous? Put your name on your posts like I have ...
Posted by Vil (anonymous) on September 29, 2008 at 4:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)
94 Democrats voted Nay on the bill, and it only needed an additional 12 votes to pass.
The Democrats are the majority and had enough votes to pass it without Republicans help, yet they still failed the bill.
No matter how the liberal media spins this one, this bill not being passed lays on the Democrats shoulders alone.
Posted by AlisonMiller (anonymous) on September 29, 2008 at 5:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)
hi, padanorr
I've been called a heathen and a fornicator (hi, Collards!) and told that I'm unfit to be around children. I also have (pretty)extreme (for around here)views on a ton of different issues ranging from religion to censorship.
It is easy in Law Co when you are the status quo (conservative) but others who differ are not viewed as acceptable, so I'm going to pass on the challenge to reveal my identity.
You've created an interesting conundrum (is that the word?) for your fellow Republicans.
Posted by Noesis (anonymous) on September 29, 2008 at 5:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Posted by Neo:
I really do get tired of repeating myself but, here we go again. Obama has made it 100% crystal clear that anyone making $250K or less will have no tax increases and that includes capital gains taxes.
_________________________________________________________
Yeah, yeah, yeah, just like Obama said that he would have voted for a ban on partial birth abortion if only there was a clause protecting the health of the mother. You now know that was a lie.
Lets see what ABC fact checkers say about your claim:
Claim: Obama said "if you make less than $250,000 -- less than a quarter-million dollars a year -- then you will not see one dime's worth of tax increase."
Fact: Obama has called for higher taxes on income, capital gains and dividends for individuals making $200,000 per year. His tax plan imposes higher taxes on couples starting at $250,000 a year. http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/......
Posted by Neo (anonymous) on September 29, 2008 at 6:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Noesis - Then let me get to the only point that really matters.
Obama Will Win....period.
Posted by Noesis (anonymous) on September 29, 2008 at 6:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Posted by Vil
You posted 7 times in a row. That's way overkill to keep your opponents views from being seen.
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Vil, one thing about Neo... his posts go up as Obambi's numbers goes up. When Obambi was losing, he hardly said anything.
Posted by padanorr (David A. Norris) on September 29, 2008 at 6:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)
AlisonMiller .... everyone has their reasons ... you have stated yours and I respect that ...
I have already spoken with some of my fellow Republican's in here and they have their reasons also ... and I respect that ...
Posted by Noesis (anonymous) on September 29, 2008 at 6:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)
No Neo, the point that matters is that Obama is a liar who will say anything to get elected.
Posted by Noesis (anonymous) on September 29, 2008 at 6:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I just hope that during the debate, Palin brings out the fact that democrats are the one's who caused this fiscal crisis. The liberal MSM sure isn't covering it. I wonder why?
Posted by Noesis (anonymous) on September 29, 2008 at 6:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)
You Tube pulls a popular anti-Democrat video off the web
C. Edmund Wright
You Tube and Warner Music Group today pulled a highly popular video that very succinctly and clearly spelled out the roots of the current economic crisis.
The 9:59 video entitled "Burning Down the House: What Caused Our Economic Crisis" played four different songs under a fast moving video sequence that very clearly tied Democrats like Chris Dodd, Franklin Raines, Jim Johnson and Barack Obama to policies and corruption related to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. It cleverly showed how the "affordable mortgage" programs sent an economic virus through the entire economy and showed Republican efforts to intervene and regulate being blocked.
For Obama and all congressional Democrats, it was a devastating video.
Posted by Noesis (anonymous) on September 29, 2008 at 7:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Obama's ties to this crisis... excellent article...
WHAT exactly does a "community organizer" do? Barack Obama's rise has left many Americans asking themselves that question. Here's a big part of the answer: Community organizers intimidate banks into making high-risk loans to customers with poor credit.
In the name of fairness to minorities, community organizers occupy private offices, chant inside bank lobbies, and confront executives at their homes - and thereby force financial institutions to direct hundreds of millions of dollars in mortgages to low-credit customers...
ONE key pioneer of ACORN's subprime-loan shakedown racket was Madeline Talbott - an activist with extensive ties to Barack Obama. She was also in on the ground floor of the disastrous turn in Fannie Mae's mortgage policies.
Long the director of Chicago ACORN, Talbott is a specialist in "direct action" - organizers' term for their militant tactics of intimidation and disruption. Perhaps her most famous stunt was leading a group of ACORN protesters breaking into a meeting of the Chicago City Council to push for a "living wage" law, shouting in defiance as she was arrested for mob action and disorderly conduct. But her real legacy may be her drive to push banks into making risky mortgage loans.
IT would be tough to find an "on the ground" community organizer more closely tied to the subprime-mortgage fiasco than Madeline Talbott. And no one has been more supportive of Madeline Talbott than Barack Obama.
When Obama was just a budding community organizer in Chicago, Talbott was so impressed that she asked him to train her personal staff.
He returned to Chicago in the early '90s, just as Talbott was starting her pressure campaign on local banks. Chicago ACORN sought out Obama's legal services for a "motor voter" case and partnered with him on his 1992 "Project VOTE" registration drive.
In those years, he also conducted leadership-training seminars for ACORN's up-and-coming organizers. That is, Obama was training the army of ACORN organizers who participated in Madeline Talbott's drive against Chicago's banks.
More than that, Obama was funding them. As he rose to a leadership role at Chicago's Woods Fund, he became the most powerful voice on the foundation's board for supporting ACORN and other community organizers. In 1995, the Woods Fund substantially expanded its funding of community organizers - and Obama chaired the committee that urged and managed the shift. http://www.nypost.com/seven/09292008/pos...
Posted by mcaldwell (Mike Caldwell) on September 29, 2008 at 11:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I would like to encourage everyone to take time to update their anonymity profiles. It isn't mandatory but it would certainly give you more credibility.
Here is a link to my blog that explains it.
http://www.irontontribune.com/weblogs/te...
Posted by steel_herd (anonymous) on September 29, 2008 at 11:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)
read the article about the mccain campaign
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/americas/0... read article
Posted by Vil (anonymous) on September 30, 2008 at 2:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)
What, a liberal analyst doesn't like her? Tell us something we don't already know.
Posted by steel_herd (anonymous) on September 30, 2008 at 5:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)
haha, ironton is about the only place i've seen that supports palin. i've been all over the country in the last few months and seen that after her initial acceptance, people have began to realize how stupid she is. if she would ever become president, or vice president - for that matter, then the country would follow ironton's path to destruction. anyway, i'm done with this thread, i'll see you in the next one. btw, the 'liberal analyst' view is shared among millions and millions of americans.
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