Posted by Demi (anonymous) on September 23, 2009 at 2:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Can you pray at the pole if you are not "Christian?"

Posted by cashmere (anonymous) on September 23, 2009 at 4:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Yes, see First Amendment, which was being practiced this morning by these kids and by you at 2:38 pm.

Posted by uawrob (anonymous) on September 23, 2009 at 5:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Great to see our young generation Honoring God through Prayer

Posted by myvoice (anonymous) on September 23, 2009 at 11:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

don't be afraid to believe, or to let other know that you believe.....this is our biggest weapon

Posted by GoAwayAlready (anonymous) on September 24, 2009 at 12:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Chesepeake is lucky to have John Adams. I love this story!

Posted by radiodogg42 (anonymous) on September 24, 2009 at 4:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I am a Christian but we do have a separation of church and state in this country. My wife works for this school system and she felt obligated to participate even though she doesn't agree with this. This area of the country doesn't seem to understand that not everyone who pays taxes is Christian.

Posted by faithnotworks (anonymous) on September 24, 2009 at 6:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Radiodogg, maybe you should go back and read the story of Daniel and the Lions Den. I find it so comical when people say things like you. I went to the pole at the elementary school, there were only a few teachers there, I wasn't offended that we were praying and people were walking by with their children who were shouting and running etc. I was excited that I live in a country that I do not "feel obligated" to hide my religion or prayer. And Demi, of course "anyone" can pray, but our prayers should be earnest.
As for the separation of church and state, foooohey....my last bit of advice...for all of you who want to take God out of everything? Great news!!! He won't be in hell either!

Posted by faithnotworks (anonymous) on September 24, 2009 at 6:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)

OOps sorry Demi, I should add to that..."anyone" can pray, God doesn't hear the prayers of the unsaved, except the prayer for salvation. As Christians our prayers should be earnest and we are instructed in the Bible how our prayers should be.

Posted by faithnotworks (anonymous) on September 24, 2009 at 6:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)

And I am sure anyone could go to the pole and pray in regards to the religion of their choice. Just another great freedom we have left in this country......for now.

Posted by radiodogg42 (anonymous) on September 24, 2009 at 10:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)

All right, how would you feel if your tax dollars went to that school (along with your children) and you were an atheist? I know for a fact that there is another elementary school in the county with a copy of the Ten Commandments in every classroom. Again, I am a Christian, I just don't believe it belongs in the PUBLIC schools.

Posted by radiodogg42 (anonymous) on September 24, 2009 at 11:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)

You also have the freedom to send your children to a Christian school.

Posted by nottellin (anonymous) on September 24, 2009 at 12:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Why do they feel the need to be so public? If you're a good Christian you don't have to be public with your prayer because you LIVE the life.

Religion does NOT belong in public schools. No religion.

Posted by faithnotworks (anonymous) on September 24, 2009 at 12:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

And if the atheists decide to hold a meeting around the flag pole that is up to them. I would instruct my child in how our family believes and pray. I don't think you silence everyone because it offends people. I have every right to believe in God and pray in public just like those that don't, don't have to participate. You say you are a Christian, and I can see you use that term loosely. As Christians we should not be for eliminating Christ, from anywhere. Just ask yourself, if Jesus was standing in front of you, how would YOU explain to Him that He doesn't belong places? He went EVERYWHERE! That you believe in Him and His ways but only at home in the closet? or at church on Sundays? Come on......I am not trying to push myself or beliefs on anyone...but I do have a right to them, even in public, in school, at work, etc. People need to quit bellyaching! If your wife participated out of her sense of "obligation" maybe she should grow a backbone and stand up for herself, instead of pretending she was there for the RIGHT reasons. That is ludicrous, there were very few teachers at this. I seen the high school and the elementary.

Posted by faithnotworks (anonymous) on September 24, 2009 at 12:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

OMG nottellin go read the Bible before coming on here making a stupid comment that Christians don't need to pray in public because they should be living right LOL!!!

Posted by fireman2127 (anonymous) on September 24, 2009 at 2:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)

we do have freedom of religion in this country.separation of church and state,came about by a letter from thomas jefferson,to a personal friend,that stated,government should not be involved in establishing religion.if students and teachers want to express their faith by praying publically,they should do so.this country was founded on principles, from the bible.like it or not,we christians are not gong to be kept slilent.this is the bilble belt and schools around here have always had public prayers,football games,graduation.if you feel offended by that,you dont have to participate.

Posted by fireman2127 (anonymous) on September 24, 2009 at 2:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

you said it right,faithnotworks.

Posted by Demi (anonymous) on September 24, 2009 at 3:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

radiodogg...Right On! I believe of separation of church and state. Why is it that so many Christians want to JAM the Christian faith down everyone's throat. I am a Christian myself and it embarrasses me greatly that many want to convert the masses because they lack tolerance of other faiths and beliefs.

faithnotworks...Prayer should not be IN the schools...flagpole..fine. Many Christians want the "Christian" prayer in schools. Not everyone in the public school is of the Christian faith. I am a high school teacher and I would never discuss religion in my classroom because of the diversity of faiths. Also, I certainly would not want prayer in school. Which prayer would be chosen from which faith??

fireman2127...You sound like a true right wingnut. Bible Belt or not, there is a separation of church and state, no matter where you live in this country, even small town southern Ohio. Perhaps when you learn to use capital letters, I can take you more seriously.

Posted by cashmere (anonymous) on September 24, 2009 at 3:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Do they want to "jam it down everyone's throats" or do they simply want to share the faith that has made their lives so much better? If you have a great pizza, and you offered your friend a piece because it's good, is that jamming?
I guess I don't quite understand your faith, Demi....do you feel that it should be kept to one's self? What about Jesus's teaching to "spread the word to all nations"?

I'm glad the kids had an opportunity to express their feelings. It was an easy way to identify themselves as a Christian, without, as you say, "jamming it down" others' throats. I like to hear kids give their opinions about religion or any other matter, vocally or written, in my classes. I understand how important it is for them to do so.

Posted by cashmere (anonymous) on September 24, 2009 at 5:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)

And I think you are judging fireman2127 rather harshly. If you are assert that you are a Christian, does that make you a "wingnut"?
Are you automatically a terrorist if you are a Muslim?

Is your citizenship in jeopardy if you don't use capital letters properly? Is your opinion less compelling?

Posted by kds2010 (anonymous) on September 24, 2009 at 9:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Hi. I am Kayla Suiter and I sang at this awesome shindig! And I would just like to get the point across that if you didn't want to attend, you were not required, if you don't want to attend FCA at our school, you aren't required, they both were/are before school activities, and if you, or your children don't want to attend, FINE! I am a Christian, and I don't "shove" anything down anyone's throat that doesn't agree to listen to what I have to say! I am going to make a stand, and say that I LOVE JESUS! I'm a JESUS FREAK! Label me, call me whatever you want, but God is on my side. I also totally agree with cashmere here, if I were to say I am Muslim, would you make a big fuss about me kneeling down to the ground in the middle of the hallway at CHS to pray? I don't think you would?!
would you label me as a terrorist? No, I don't think you would, because you might "offend" me! Well, did you you ever think that the words you use on here are hurt full? Because they indeed are! I love Jesus and NO ONE in the United States or even in this world can stop me from praising my Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ! Even if it becomes the death of me! Because I know where I'm going! And I'm not afraid to die! Even at the age I am, cause I'm Heaven Bound!

Posted by nottellin (anonymous) on September 24, 2009 at 9:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Yes, you do "shove"... What was this? Were you all dead silent in what you were doing? Or did your antics carry to those who weren't interested, thus forcing others to listen?

Re. your muslim question... Yes, I would. Prayer and religion has NO PLACE in public schools. If you have to wave it around like a banner you're not proving anything.
Who are you trying to convince? Us or YOURSELF?

I am Christian, and don't believe that anyone has the right to usurp property paid for with public money for their religion.

Posted by radiodogg42 (anonymous) on September 25, 2009 at 4:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I don't believe Muslims were mentioned in the original conversation nor do I believe that they have anything to do with it. If Jesus were standing here, I would explain to him that (Bible Belt or not), we have leaders and laws in this country that we follow as good citizens. As mentioned before, the separation of church of state goes back to Thomas Jefferson. He's arguably one of the greatest Americans of all time, and also a Christian. But he also realized that Christianity had no place in public schools. And, yes, if you do not use capital letters (or punctuation and proper grammar), your opinion IS less compelling.

Posted by Demi (anonymous) on September 25, 2009 at 11:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Let's simplify this argument....Religion DOES NOT belong in the public schools. I am a Christian as well. I go to church and practice my faith in this arena. From what I have noticed for the past 18 years of teaching in a public high school is that Christians seem to be the only ones who want to preach to everyone. I have never noticed any other faith trying to convert the masses. Based on my experiences, MANY Christians are intolerant of other faiths and believe that Christianity should be part of the public schools. Perhaps those who want to practice religion in the public arena should perhaps instead attend a Private Christian school.

Posted by Demi (anonymous) on September 25, 2009 at 11:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Faithnot works...Why is it "ludicrous" that many teachers did not attend. Perhaps they are tolerant of the diversity of religion in their school and did not want to make their students, to whom they have a moral obligation, to feel uncomfortable. I have taught 18 years and do not bring religion into my classroom.

Posted by cashmere (anonymous) on September 25, 2009 at 2:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

In my 18 years of teaching, I have brought in religion when it comes up in the curriculum, and have never censured any remarks for or against. I don't understand why that is the one subject that should be banned. As a Christian who thoroughly knows the Bible, with a more than average knowledge of other mainstream religions as well as a working knowledge of some lesser known ones, I feel fully qualified to handle questions and discussions.
I'm not here to teach religion, but I think many students believe we are not allowed to even mention it or ask a question.
I want my students to be able to express all of their personalities, not hide their religious views. I've had students from religions different from Christianity, or a particular church with some lifestyle differences, and the other students learn from them.....it's called education - which is not restricted to state approved textbooks.

Posted by Demi (anonymous) on September 25, 2009 at 2:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Of course I would never censor the remarks from students. But I choose not to have discussions based on religion in my classroom. I don't know where you teach, but I am in a suburb of Columbus where we have a great deal of diversity. I would like to keep my job, and therefore respect the separation of church and state.

If you, as a teacher are talking openly with classes about Christianity, you are indoctrinating these children. It is the PARENTS responsibility to teach faith, not yours. Sadly, you do not see that.

Posted by cashmere (anonymous) on September 25, 2009 at 3:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Sadly, you are making lots of assumptions. I am not TEACHING faith, but religion comes up a lot in my curriculum, and teaching about religion in our culture and laws surrounding it is appropo.

So if I'm teaching a class about the role of say, Confucious, in history, you would feel that was indoctrination?
If the subject of Islam comes up in a discussion of current events, should I panic and shush the kid?

You seem to have very strong views - you make quick assumptions on very little evidence. Interesting.

Posted by Demi (anonymous) on September 25, 2009 at 4:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Perhaps because you do not offer specific examples like you did in this last post about Confucious. In our district we have a class called "Bible as Literature." But it is taught as literature just like any short story or play would be taught. Religion can be taught in that context, but not in a faith based context. That is the role of the parent, not the school teacher. Good to know you are not teaching faith. That is indeed my point.

Yes, I do have strong views. Public School is not Sunday School. I would not want another religion besides Christianity taught to my child, therefore, NO religion should be in the public school. It is really a no brainer I think.

I am so busy teaching material based on our state standards, learning targets, and formative assessment, if I wanted to include religion, I would not find time to do so nor would I want to do so.

Posted by Demi (anonymous) on September 25, 2009 at 4:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)

kds2010...Great for you that you are a Christian. So am I. It is a wonderful thing. You may pray anywhere you want to pray. In fact, anyone of any religion can pray wherever they want to pray, even in school. But keep in mind that there are other people who are not Christian, therefore, we do not teach Christianity or any other religion in the public school. It is called separation of church and state...it is a real simple concept.

Posted by cashmere (anonymous) on September 26, 2009 at 1:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

You are the pride of the ODE, Demi! Salut! :)

Posted by Demi (anonymous) on September 26, 2009 at 1:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Cashmere..Why the sarcasm? If I were a Buddhist, would you want me to teach my faith to your child in my classroom?

I am not totally understanding where you are coming from. I am doing what I find to be the right thing. Perhhaps we both really see it the same way. It does not sound to me that you are pushing your faith in the classroom, so how are we different in that respect?

Posted by willie (anonymous) on September 26, 2009 at 10:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The phrase "separation of church and state" is nowhere in our constitution. Our forefathers wrote the First Amendment to keep the government out of religion, not religion out of government. Our constitution was found on Christian principles. If you want to find the phrase "separation of church and state," look in the Communist Manifesto...that's where it is.

Posted by Demi (anonymous) on September 27, 2009 at 10:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Wille...we cannot have organized prayer in public schools...that is factual. So what is the argument??

Posted by cashmere (anonymous) on September 27, 2009 at 11:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I was joking with you, I am amused at the way you always talk about indicators and standards. Yes, I have good state test scores too, but they don't validate me as a teacher. My relationship with my students and their success, not always measured by the ODE, does. Ok, the good scores are nice too!

I will say, that as you say you are a Christian, you DO teach your religion in the classroom, the minute you walk in the door. How? by the way you treat your students, your colleagues, your administrators. Your Christian values should radiate from you without one word of scripture. In fact, a student may say to another, why is Ms. Demi so nice, and the reply may be, oh she goes to my church, she is a Christian. See, the jig is up! You have been revealed!

And I do agree with you about official prayer in schools. I understand the other side, but they are not in our shoes. I would hazard to say that plenty of prayers go up daily from our buildings!! I do think that school administators have had panicky reactions to silly things, like a kid having a Bible in their possession in school. If you had a Right to Read Week, and a kid was reading a Bible during the silent reading time, is he wrong? That has happened at my school years ago, and it caused a fuss. I was on the kid's side, if that is not obvious!

Have a great day and week at school!

Posted by cashmere (anonymous) on September 27, 2009 at 1:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I've always interpreted "separation of church and state" as the nation not establishing an official church. Therefore, it is wrong for a school, acting as a government, to force kids to belong to a certain religion. It does not prohibit exercise thereof, as the Supreme Court said in stating, "Constitutional rights do not stop at the schoolhouse door."

Having said that, I find it interesting that people can be shocked over kids professing their Christian beliefs at a flag pole( similar I might add to Muslims who had a rally in DC yesterday for similar reasons) and yet, when those same kids walk into the school house door, are expected to be honest, truthful, respectful, treat others as they would like to be treated - from where did those ideas come? They are mentioned in Judeaism, Christianity, Buddhism, etc.

So if we really want ALL religion out of schools, then let the kids cheat, plagiarize, punch eat other out, and generally be their own selfish selves. If we punish a kid for cheating, aren't we forcing our beliefs on them?

Just commenting.

Posted by Demi (anonymous) on September 27, 2009 at 3:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Cashmere..Yes...I do demonstrate "Christian values" because of my personality. I have studied Buddhism a bit and those values radiate as well. I think it is about just having moral values that we model for our students, of course without teaching a religion.

I am glad you were joking. I feel much better. It is so hard to infer tone in an email.

I think we are both good role models for students.

You have a wonderful school year as well.

:)

Posted by willie (anonymous) on September 28, 2009 at 7:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Demi,
Yes, we can have organized prayer in school if it is student led, and it is student led by many fine Christian young men and women. They have the right to freedom of speech and it is not during school hours.

Posted by Demi (anonymous) on September 28, 2009 at 10:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)

agreed. It cannot be led by teachers...I know all this..I'm a teacher. So what is the argument??

Posted by willie (anonymous) on September 28, 2009 at 2:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Demi,
Only that people like to harp on separation of church and state and they don't understand the original intent of the First Amendment. I believe that Christianity is being discriminated against in our nation at every front. Every other religion seems to have rights and favor that Christianity doesn't. Even those that call themselves Christians want it out of the schools. Thats baffles me.

Posted by willie (anonymous) on September 28, 2009 at 3:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Demi,
Even our president favors Islam over Christianity. He ignores our national day of prayer but gives time to the Muslims.

Posted by Demi (anonymous) on September 28, 2009 at 4:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Wille...why does that baffle you? As a Christian I do not want any prayer in schools. Because whose to say if we did have prayer in schools that one day some other prayer besides the Christian prayer would be indoctrinated on students. Whether you like it or not (and I'm guessing NOT), we do have a diversity of religion in PUBLIC schools. You have the RIGHT to send your child to a private Christian school. And I love Obama, so you are not going to convince me otherwise. You speak like a right winger who is not tolerant of all religions. Just because you practice the Christian faith does not mean that everyone does nor do they want to be converted.

Posted by willie (anonymous) on September 28, 2009 at 5:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Demi,
I have no problem with any and all religions in the school if they were treated equally. The problem is that they aren't. I, too, am a teacher. I go to great effort not to indoctrinate, but I will answer any question about religion and qualify it as my opinion and belief. The only other thing I have to add is, yes, I am a conservative. I can't imagine anyone with a braiin being in favor of what Obama is doing to our country. I don't expect to change your mind, only time will prove who and what he is.

Posted by kds2010 (anonymous) on September 28, 2009 at 5:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)

nottellin,
I didn't shove anything down anyone's throat. They didn't even have to come near, if they didn't want to, it was something that was student lead. The President, VP, Secretary, Treasurer, and 2 activity directors gathered up a speaker, and a group to sing! It was completely student lead, and I honestly don't care what any of you (not directly to you, nottellin) have to say about what we did. It's over, and we praised God in the end. I am just stating the fact that I love Jesus! I honestly don't think any of you would get mad if I were on here saying that I love Ali, or Muhammad. Just stating the facts.

Posted by willie (anonymous) on September 28, 2009 at 8:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Demi,
I want to quickly apologize for my comments about Obama and anyone who likes him. You are free to have any opinions you want. I would prefer to respectfully agree to disagree on it appears all thing political. Please forgive my comment about Obama supporters being brainless.

Posted by Demi (anonymous) on September 28, 2009 at 9:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

kds2010...I do not think anyone is mad. Sadly, you are mistaken. It does not matter which faith, Christianity, Judiasm, Buddhism...whichever..it does not belong IN the PUBLIC SCHOOL. I love Jesus too...but I don't teach it in my classes because it is not a Private Christian school where I teach. Your flagpole thing was student led...so be it.

Posted by Demi (anonymous) on September 28, 2009 at 9:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Wille...yes, those of us with strong political beliefs tend to criticize sometimes, myself included. I just to continue to do what I think is right in my life for my students and others. Sounds like you do too. :)

Posted by willie (anonymous) on September 29, 2009 at 6:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Demi,
Thank you for understanding. I am deeply committed to preparing my students for life. I love my job and just want to make a difference in the lives of my students.

Posted by kds2010 (anonymous) on September 29, 2009 at 5:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Demi,
I never said that anyone was mad, I just was saying that I don't think people would be AS upset if I were praising a different god. AND I still DO NOT agree with the fact of prayer not belonging in school, but I do agree with the fact that there shouldn't be a designated prayer, because I wouldn't bow my head to another religion. But, I do feel that we as Christians should have the freedom to pray, praise and worship Jesus anytime we feel.

Posted by Demi (anonymous) on September 29, 2009 at 8:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)

It sounds to me that you feel victimized when you say that people would not feel AS upset if you were praising another god. That is nonsense. NO ORGANIZED PRAYER should be in the public school and it sounds like you agree. I am sure you would abstain if made to say another prayer besides the Christian prayer. Yes, Christians have the right to pray anywhere anytime as do other religions. I see praying at the flagpole as merely a protest that Christians carry out because they believe prayer (the Christian prayer) should be IN the schools. I am a teacher and would never indoctrinate any religion on my students...it has no place in the PUBLIC schools. As long as you pray at the pole, there is not a problem.

Posted by kds2010 (anonymous) on October 1, 2009 at 9:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Okay then, what was all the commotion about to begin with then? Not one teacher indoctrinated ANY student that didn't want to be indoctrinated. And that's completely fine with me if you don't want to teach any religion in your classrom, but if someone discriminated against me because I was a Christian, I would definitely be going to talk the head of the school board or someone that would listen to me, because THAT my friend, IS WRONG! I have a question for you, If I were to wear a shirt that promoted Christianity, or my church, would you consider that wrong? Because you say you don't want anyone indoctrinated. That is the same thing.

Posted by Demi (anonymous) on October 1, 2009 at 10:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)

OOh I sense some anger here. You are not getting my point. Of course you can wear a shirt that promotes Christianity, Buddhism, Judiasm, etc. As a teacher, I would not do this...you are a student...you CAN. I am the adult who is hired to teach and have a responsibility that I don't think you are understanding.

You can pray at the pole till the cows come home. Perhaps you are not reading all of my posts. I cannot spell it out with any more clarity....what else can I say?? Religion does not belong IN the public school...go to Sunday school for that.

Posted by Demi (anonymous) on October 1, 2009 at 10:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Please find a dictionary and look up the word "indoctrinate"

Posted by kds2010 (anonymous) on October 2, 2009 at 11:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

i know what "indoctrinate" means. And I was a bit upset at the fact that as Christians people are acting this way basically saying God does not belong in school. well, God isn't the leaving kind, and He never walks away, even from those who don't believe and want to leave Him behind. So...

Posted by Demi (anonymous) on October 3, 2009 at 12:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Never Mind...I am throwing in the towel. It is obvious you cannot debate on a point by point basis. You are not addressing the points I am making. You are not debating prayer in schools; you are simply saying God belongs in school. This is not a specific argument or based on laws or rules.

adios and good luck!

Posted by kds2010 (anonymous) on October 4, 2009 at 7:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)

prayer and God are like 2 peas in a pod, so they do belong together, and I do know how to debate on a certain point. God, Jesus, and prayer do belong in school, and I have that freedom while living in America...for now anyway.